Navigating Spirituality and Religion in a Secular World

Peter: 00:00:00

Views, interpretations and opinions expressed are not advice nor official positions presented on behalf of any organization or institution. They are for informational and entertainment purposes only.

In this first installment, the guys set the stage for the show with their initial thoughts on the project, including intent for the podcast, causes of human suffering and views on institution. Now join Ryan and Peter for the Tracking Wisdom podcast. Tell me about who's at your table.

Ryan: 00:00:33

So that was kind of a theme that we were going for.

It's kind of an open table discussion, open understanding and not having exclusivity, but really trying to bring people together for dialogue and for learning.

Peter: 00:00:49

So what you envision was a discussion of different beliefs to help seekers understand more kind of. And give some toeholds to you. Said a younger generation that that's kind of like untethered.

Ryan: 00:01:04

Have you ever heard of the term nuns? That's N o N E S. Do you know what that I mean by that?

Peter: 00:01:09

Yeah.

Ryan: 00:01:10

So I had been doing some research and this was something that I had aligned with, which was generally people maybe in my age group, possibly a little older or younger, and are finding ourselves in this place of nuns where we're looking for spiritual fulfillment. We're disillusioned by the institutions and the hypocrisy that lies within them.

Some may have gone to church and potentially witnessed hypocrisies from the congregations and become disillusioned with that. So they know that that's not for them, but they're missing this other thing and it's this desire and yearning for spiritual fulfillment, but.

But not identifying with or wanting to even be affiliated with any of these traditional things. And they're called nuns. Like, I have no religion, but I'm interested in exploring some of the more metaphysical kind of things.

I think there's a lot of people out there who are kind of confused and just trying to make sense of what they're seeing and what they're getting. And, you know, the Internet is a blessing and a curse kind of thing.

And this project to me is like, put the information out there, let those who would be interested consume it and bring their own insight to it. And it really isn't about so much as having, you know. Well, I guess.

And this is where the table comes into play and then having that open table where we can talk about it.

Peter: 00:02:38

So. So kind of demonstrating that we can grapple with these issues.

We can talk about them and wonder about them and disagree about them and that it's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that a lot.

I. I think that something That I immediately thought of was the idea of suffering, not not recognizing your own suffering, not recognizing that you're. You're caught up in something that. That is suffering, that you are suffering.

And so, again, I mean, obviously it's a quintessential Buddhist perspective, but it's also something from very personal experience of. Of. Of recognizing thought patterns and.

And behaviors and saying, you know, oh, this is a really painful place to be, and it's not because of someone else. This circumstance which you created to, to some extent, like you participated in the creation of your circumstance. You know, it's.

Maybe it's not your fault, but there's that aspect of it. And then there's also aspect of. Of the perspective of the way you're viewing it, how you're. How. How you're experiencing it is a choice.

And it's very hard to see that it is that choice that creates suffering as opposed to the circumstance. So I'm interested in the insight that it's not so much that you create the circumstance, but that you create your suffering.

Not, not that you create it, but you're in control of it. You can. You can promote it, or you can undo it by the way you choose to experience it. Okay, so that's.

That's our grand goal, right, is to kind of hopefully help people gain insight into that kind of perspective.

Ryan: 00:04:16

So many people are out there suffering and potentially suffering unnecessarily just based on this unawareness of how they can make subtle changes in their choices to achieve greater outcomes. And that for me, any tools that I could help give somebody to supply them, to find their way. And.

And that, to me is a big difference that I see a lot that it's not about this is what you should do, or you should do this, because I couldn't define that for you. I don't know what's right for you. Everybody's tolerances, likes and dislikes are all different and personal to them.

And for me, helping people with the process is the idea that helping people to help themselves. And that's something that I hold dear.

And I'm hopeful that in some of the stuff that we get to do that we can help bring some support to people who are finding a challenge in this. And actually, another thought I had had and I think was, what is reality? You know, like, is this an illusion kind of thing?

Peter: 00:05:21

Oh, okay, so.

So that's another one as far as Buddhist perspective goes, like, that conventional reality is in fact, not real, but you deal with it because that's where you have effect.

But you become enlightened by recognizing ultimate reality, which is more of the quantum world kind of stuff, where it's a unified theory and everything is one.

Ryan: 00:05:45

Some people struggle even to conceptualize how things exist or could exist beyond this physical realm because, you know, this is the experience that we know and all we know.

Peter: 00:05:59

So it's on my current practice, this tower practice I was talking about, it's part of this is a Bodhisattva concept. Have you heard of this? So the Bodhisattva in Buddhism is the enlightened being who foregoes final nirvana.

So final nirvana is total peace by extinction of the identity in a positive sense. And the Bodhisattva becomes enlightened, but vows to remain in the world until all sentient beings can be liberated.

And so in my current practice, it's may I become enlightened so that I can liberate others. And the Buddha didn't teach about what's beyond. I mean, he was extremely pragmatic.

He was basically, don't ask me these questions, just, just stop suffering. One of his famous parables is why would you ask about these things when you're suffering?

If you had an arrow in you, would you let the physician treat you, remove the arrow and treat you? Or would you say, wait, wait, first tell me who made this arrow, what tribe he's from.

And you know, he goes on this big thing about explain all of this stuff to me before you remove the arrow and stop my suffering. So the idea of a fallible church is something I, I think would be productive discussion.

This hypocrisy that, that the whole thing is that that makes people hate organized religion, like vehemently hate it, and which I find really, really troubling. I'm also very interested to find where the problems have occurred in Buddhism.

I mean, most of what I've read about is in modern teachers, one of whom I actually had contact with, and then I found out later, like, oh God, that that's actually a whole story is, is one of leadership cover up. So it's really upsetting. I mean it's like, just like the Catholic Church.

So, so in, in every religion there's always been people who are vehemently critical of the non religious and then at the same time are violating their own precepts. So I think it would be interesting to map that out and you know, have a discussion about that.

And how do you come around right on it and say everything's okay?

Ryan: 00:08:17

Well, the only way I see coming around right is to acknowledge the fallibility of an institution because once it becomes institutionalized, it has a fear of its own disintegration. You know, so it kind of has this life drive and understanding that ultimate reality or spiritual thinking and philosophy and all those things. They.

They don't need institutions to exist. And, you know, it's kind of like what you were saying.

Just because this happened with the institution doesn't make the concept of print or principle and teaching invalidated. And, you know, I would say continuing to encourage pursuit of the concept as a concept and a teaching without ties to an institution.

So understanding, you know, obviously becomes difficult if your authority only comes from an institution, which I think is kind of what I'm hoping for. We get here where it's an open discussion. Personal learning and development outside of doctrines and dogmas.

Peter: 00:09:24

Thank you for listening to the Tracking Wisdom Podcast. Join us next time as we continue the discussion.

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